[Cromwell]

Readers of this thread will be aware that letters are routinely sent to us by local councils these days requiring us to be on the Electoral Roll. Under penalty of a severe fine. But a few months ago (at the time of the Euro elections) this amazing exchange occurred between me and my local Electoral Officer. (I wrote to them knowing that any voting irregularities could be stopped by the voter using their right to get a copy of their own voting form).

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To the Electoral Officer, Havering Borough, Essex

Dear Sir/Madam,

RIGHT OF VOTERS TO OBTAIN A COPY OF THEIR COMPLETED VOTING FORMS AT THE TIME OF THEIR VOTE IN LOCAL, NATIONAL AND EU ELECTIONS HELD IN HAVERING BOROUGH

I am writing to request that all voters at polling stations in Havering for local, national and EU elections are able to obtain, at the time when they vote in forthcoming elections, a copy of their own completed voting form as a right, this just before they cast their vote. Since their vote is their own and since coming elections at local, national and EU level are amongst the most important facing our nation in many centuries.

Will you please pass this to the Senior Officer of Havering for reply who is responsible for voting in the Borough for his action.

Yours sincerely

RN

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I received the following reply -
Dear Mr RN,

Thank you for your email. The election will be run in strict accordance with the relevant legislation. At present, this does not permit voters to obtain copies of electoral paperwork.

I am sorry I cannot be of more assistance in this matter.


Regards
Melanie Adams
Principal Elections Officer
London Borough of Havering

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And so I wrote as follows -

Dear Ms Adams,

Can you please show me specifically where the relevant electoral legislation does NOT permit voters to obtain copies of their own voting form ?

I here request that a copy voteS by voters is made available to its owners (the voter) in Havering at the time when they are cast, for which voters, of course, would be prepared to pay a nominal sum.

Thank you for acting on this request.

RN

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And I received the following -
Dear Mr RN

The Representation of the People act states:

No person shall—
(a)interfere with or attempt to interfere with a voter when recording his vote;

(b)otherwise obtain or attempt to obtain in a polling station information as to the candidate for whom a voter in that station is about to vote or has voted;

Any staff producing a copy of a completed form would have access as to how someone has voted. Furthermore, it would not be possible on a practical level as most of our polling stations do not have copying facilities.

Regards
Melanie Adams
Principal Elections Officer
London Borough of Havering

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To which I replied -

Dear Principal Elections Officer

Thank you for your letter quoting from the Representation of the People Act.

You have quoted -

No person shall—
(a)interfere with or attempt to interfere with a voter when recording his vote;

(b)otherwise obtain or attempt to obtain in a polling station information as to the candidate for whom a voter in that station is about to vote or has voted;

In reply -

1. How can the fair and reasonable request of a voter involved in the democratic process ( to obtain a certified copy of his/her own vote) possibly be construed by anyone as 'interference with a voter' ? Surely this is irrelevant since there is no interference whatsover !

2. In respect of not 'obtaining or attempting to obtain in a polling station information as to the candidate for whom a voter in that station is about to vote or has voted', this too is surely irrelevant, don't you think (?) since the person in question is none other than the voter himself/herself ! The very person who is already perfectly well of their own voting intentions ! There is no 'third party' involved.

3. Furthermore, the vote of a voter is their own vote. And because it's their vote they are fairly and reasonably entitled to obtain a certified copy of it. Since it's a document under Common law to which they and they alone have conformed and complied under the Common law. To deny a voter the right to have a copy of a lawful document to which they have given their written consent would constitute the complete loss of information on which the voter has just assented to. What sort of process would that be, in law ?

4.It would not be necessary for any member of staff at polling booths to 'have access to how a voter has just voted'. For it would be simple if, at the time of casting their vote, a copy was automatically made available (in, say, a carbon form) which is automatically stamped/certified at the point where the voter leaves the polling booth area. That copy being retained by the voter themselves. And this copy being their own record of their assent to their participation in democracy.

I see no reason in law why such a fair and reasonable request should be lawfully denied, especially since (perhaps you agree ?) the Representation of the People act does not, in any way, rule out a certified record of voters own vote being retained by them, the voter. On the contrary, it is the Common Law of England that each man and woman must have access to any lawful undertaking which they have entered in to in writing.

Your sincerely

RN

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And I received the following reply -

Dear Mr RN,

The election is run in accordance with the rules; as mentioned previously, the provision of a copy of a completed voting paper is not in the rules. If you would like to pursue this I would recommend you contact the Electoral Commission, who provide guidance on the conduct of elections.


Regards
Melanie Adams
Principal Elections Officer

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And my reply -

Dear Melanie Adams,

Thank you. I will decline to vote in an election where the right is not automatically acknowledged that we, voters ourselves, can have made a certified copy of that which we, sovereign voters, actually decide on. To indicate that 'rules' forbid this, or to suggest the 'law' does not allow for it, that the law actually forbids it, or to say you have no photocopy machine etc - these are all impediments to a fair and reasonable request which, with a will, are so easily answered.

I offer to provide a photocopier on the day of the election for this purpose. Free of charge. But the Common Law of this nation clearly states that a person must have access, on request, to a a fair copy of any lawful undertaking he/she makes in writing if they so require it.

In any event,

Regards

RN

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End of Correspondence

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[Andy]

Forgive my ignorance Cromwell;

Are you asking for a copy of the paper that you vote on (put your cross onto)?

For what reason?
Proof of who you voted for or is there a number or mark on the voting paper you want to keep a copy of.....why? Does this number or mark have some significance?

Could you take out a camera and photograph it in the voting hall, that would cause some raised eyebrows

[Cromwell]

Andy, on 30 October 2009 - 07:09 PM, said:

Forgive my ignorance Cromwell;

Are you asking for a copy of the paper that you vote on (put your cross onto)?

For what reason?
Proof of who you voted for or is there a number or mark on the voting paper you want to keep a copy of.....why? Does this number or mark have some significance?

Could you take out a camera and photograph it in the voting hall, that would cause some raised eyebrows

Hi there Andy,

The significance is in the fact that voting irregularities have been a definite factor in recent elections. The recent Irish Referendum is a case in point. So too were numerous examples here in the UK at the recent EU election. It's a fact too that a person under the Common Law is, by voting, giving their personal approval in law to one of the candidates who is standing for election. He/she creating, in fact, a document of agreement to which they are of course a lawful party. For which he/she is lawfully entitled to obtain, if they so request, a fair and accurate copy of what they have entered in to. Since (in English law) any agreement we may make which is subject to the law we are entitled to obtain and keep a fair copy of. Or else we vote and have no record whatsoever given to us of whom we have voted for. A simple solution to this can be found. By making a record for the voter. It is not 'rocket science' to have such a system. But, frankly, I think it would be an improvement in these days of such corruption within politics.

You will appreciate that a situation currently exists that our vote is cast into the box and that we retain absolutely no verifiable record of our own agreement or of what happens to it and to millions of others, nationwide at the time votes are counted. A situation more inviting of voting fraud can hardly be imagined. (God forbid !)

Now, for sure, many people may not be interested in asserting their lawful right in this matter. I wrote offering to provide the Voting Station near me(free of charge) with a photocopier. Or with carbon paper. Or with whatever stationery they may require to perform this fair and reasonable service. Saying that I, under the law, wished to have a record from the voting station of my own vote. Which I am old enough (and responsible enough) to keep safely as a documentary record. But this was declined, as you see, above.

Regards

[Guthlac]

Hello Cromwell,

I think it is a good idea I believe many of the public question the results of elections especially nowadays. After the public mark and cast their vote they only have trust to depend upon the rightful outcome. So without individual evidence of a persons vote for their candidate or party, lawful and physical accountability of the state has ceased. (justice/law should be seen to be done). It is free to falsify results.